For ten years Xun Sun worked on his first feature film, now Magic Atlas finally celebrates its premiere at Locarno's Concorso Cineasti del Presente. The multilayered animated tale merges China's conflicted cultural history into a monumental tapestry, as rich in visual styles as in symbolic subtext. Before the premiere screening, the Beijing-based artist and filmmaker found time for an interview with Lidanoir, opening up about the challenging production phase, fusing modern and traditional artistic techniques, and the difficult standing of historical facts in an era of populism and subjectivism.
Lida Bach: Magic Atlas is now premiering at the Locarno Film Festival. How does it feel to be here with your first feature film?
Xun Sun: It's wonderful. Locarno is a very beautiful city, and it feels very European. I'm from Asia, so for me it's quite different.
LB: You've wanted to make films for a very long time. Could you talk a little about the production process - how the project came about and the difficulties you faced in making it?
XS: Before making this feature, I completed twenty-five short animation films. As I grew older, I began asking myself: What is art? I realized it's not only about making artworks, and felt that I had to make a film.
Making an art-house feature film in China is almost impossible. The first problem was money. Fortunately, I received my first funding from Judith, the owner of the White Rabbit Private Art Museum in Sydney. That allowed me to begin working on the film, but it wasn't enough. I had to continue selling my artworks to finance this production.
In the end, it took me 10 years to realize this film. When you invest a dollar in a film project, it‘s just a dollar. But when you invest 10 years, you invest a part of your life. During that time, the film educated me. You are connecting with the world, while the world itself changes every day. Over those ten years, so much happened: so many wars, political changes. I kept changing the story to respond to what was happening in the world.
LB: So the story evolved significantly over those ten years. Did the visual language evolve as well?
XS: Everything changed, because the world changed. And as for the story, sometimes I changed it every single day.
LB: How did you eventually decide what to keep in?
XS: Whatever had already been completed. Everything else remained open to change because I really wanted to capture the world as it is. I'm an artist before I'm a film director. Artists focus on the truth of a situation, while directors work within a system of scripts, production schedules, and such things. I'm always in conversation with the world, asking what is happening.
I also spent a lot of time studying history and religion. For example, I became very interested in the war between Ukraine and Russia, so I read extensively. One book that was particularly important for me was by Samuel Huntington. It helped me think about the deeper historical and religious dimensions behind conflicts. I'm still far away from understanding these issues completely, but I'm always trying to get closer to the truth. Truth is the responsibility of an artist.
Of course, I also pay close attention to what happens in China. During COVID, the whole country was locked down. I was confined to a hotel room in Shanghai for two months without being able to leave. Experiences like that made me think about China's history. I believe we need history as a tool to understand the present.
LB: Do you see your work as a visual artist and your work as a filmmaker as two different artistic practices, or are they connected?
XS: I think we separate the world too much. I don't even primarily think of myself as an artist. I'm an independent person, and art is simply the skill I use to get closer to the truth. I don't really care whether people call me a visual artist or a film director.
LB: Magic Atlas deals with politics, history and religion, the three most contentious subjects. Did you encounter problems with censorship while making the film? Or with funding, which can become a form of indirect censorship?
XS: That's a long story. In the end, nobody financed the film. Every cent came from me. An artist's life is short. Our time is limited, so artists should take responsibility for the place where they grew up and developed. I spend a great deal of time studying Chinese history, but the history I learned did not come from school. I learned it from my grandmother and my father. Those are memories, and for me, they carry truth.
Education often creates narratives that are not entirely true. I never simply accepted them. History is one world, and my work builds a parallel one growing out of reality. This is my understanding of China's true history.
LB: Would you say confronting history is a bigger issue in China than in Europe? Or do you think the problem exists everywhere, only in different forms?
XS: This problem exists everywhere. The circumstances may differ, but every society struggles with it. I'm forty-six, and when I speak with younger people in China, I'm often shocked by their view of certain events. Sometimes I know things with absolute certainty because I experienced them, but they still deny it.
During the COVID lockdown, I spent two months confined to a hotel room in Shanghai. The entire city was locked down. Later, when I spoke to younger people, some told me that such a lockdown could never have happened. I said, "I was there." They replied, "No, you're lying." Experiences like that leave me very worried.
The world is never governed by simple good intentions. You may sincerely want to do good for people, but that doesn’t necessarily lead to good outcomes. My work does not provide answers. It asks questions. I invite people to think about the world we live in. That’s the task of an artist.
LB: You work with many different artistic techniques, both as a visual artist and as a filmmaker. How do you decide which techniques to use, and bring them together?
XS: I love drawing, painting and every kind of visual expression. Technique itself is never the problem because I use it every day. I don't think of it as work. Each part of a film asks for a different technique. At the same time, I want to bring together the entire history of human art. I've studied oil painting, traditional Chinese painting, and Islamic art and combine them to weave the story of the world into a single film. My films don't come from the conventions of cinema, but the perspective of an independent artist.
LB: Are there particular artists or filmmakers who have inspired you?
XS: Many! Buddha has been an important inspiration. In drawing, I admire Albrecht Dürer and Hans Holbein. Among contemporary artists, William Kentridge, then the Czech animator Jan Švankmajer, and also Piotr Dumała. The world is full of inspiration.
LB: Have you ever considered incorporating live action into your films, or even making a live-action feature?
XS: No.If animation were a religion, I would be completely devoted to it. Also I don't combine animation with filmed material. Like shooting live-action footage first and then painting over it. I cannot do that. It's like printing a photograph onto a canvas and then covering it with oil paint. That's not painting—it's a copy. I reject shortcuts.
LB: Do you think AI poses a danger to art and filmmaking? Especially since many people don’t notice the difference between AI slop and art.
XS: No. AI is just a tool. But art is different. If we look back through art history, every important breakthrough happened because humans were uncertain or confused. Confusion is one of our greatest creative energies. That uncertainty is profoundly human, and AI can‘t replace it- We believe something, then discover we were mistaken. That process creates culture. AI doesn't experience uncertainty.
Making a painting is a process of constant questioning. You look at it and ask yourself whether something feels right or wrong. You make a small change, then another. You spend a long time moving back and forth until the work gradually finds its form. AI doesn't work that way. It simply produces an answer as efficiently as possible. The essential question is how we use it. Either AI becomes your tool, or you become AI’s servant.
If everyone shares the same knowledge system, AI will only reproduce that same system, and people risk becoming dependent on it. If we stop thinking and remain within old patterns, then of course we become servants of AI. We stop creating new things and stop opening our minds.
LB: What do you hope audiences will take away from the film?
XS: Actually, I think it's the final section, the sequence with the newspapers and the master speaking—that people may find difficult. I didn't want to give people an answer. I want them to keep thinking after the film ends.
LB: Now that you've completed Magic Atlas, are you already working on a new project? Perhaps another film?
XS: Yes, I am!
LB: Can you tell anything about it? Just a few words?
XS: No, it’s too early. I can't really talk about it yet.
LB: Then we'll simply look forward to seeing it when the time comes. Thank you for the interview!